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Hello HEE. I feel like I keep bugging everybody with these different horses, but I guess thats what happens when you're horse shopping. Anyway if you don't mind I'd like some broodmare advice this time!
Ideally I'd be breeding to raise a jumper/hunter jumper/dressage horse, with the main focus on jumping up to 110. I like my horses to be more on the sensitive side, without being spooky, I'm not sure if there's a word for that lol. This horse would be for my own use.
The mare I'm currently looking at is a Selle Francais/Palomino/Fresian cross who's been very successful in both dressage (Regional champion 2014) and jumping (up to 80/90cm). The owner has told me that she has produced a lovely foal (with her head, frame, and color), and that the mare herself has the scope for 105 amateur jumping classes. I have asked for proof of a foal as well as proof of competition results but the owner is currently travelling so I have yet to get a reply.
In France to compete in amateur level (over 1 meter jumping) she would need to be registered with a breed, which is difficult as she is a cross. I'm not sure if it's possible to get her registered. And I definitely wouldn't be getting her if I couldn't register the foal because of her. It is a drawback but because of her age its not a problem for me.
The mare is on the older side, so I'd be breeding sooner rather then later, but she would be my competition horse until she retired.
My questions are what should I be looking for if I go to try this mare, or any mare in particular? What should I watch out for and avoid? I don't have an eye for conformation, so besides overall proportionality, what specific things should I be looking for?
Rant and disclaimer: I asked this on a UK forum (same one I asked about that pony if anyone remembers) thinking that since it was a broodmare question it'd be different. It wasn't. I know they mean well, but all they told me was that the mare I had in mind (they haven't actually seen her) wasn't a good choice, she's not proven nor is she anything special (commercially understandable, however there are plenty of schools around here that would take a mare like her or her foal), that she didn't sound successful at all as it 'doesn't sound like she's jumped 105', that I shouldn't be swayed by color, and that I'd be better off getting a backed 4 year old. Funny they say that as six months ago they told me what a horrible idea that was XD. I'm just frustrated that its happened again. I'm sure they're lovely, well meaning people, but this is the third time I've been shot down.
I'd love to get a successful proven broodmare at 110/115 jumping level, but unfortunately that comes with a rather hefty price tag around here. Please understand that I would not be considering breeding a mare that was not quality, no matter how ordinary. I decided against another similar mare for a fraction of this mare's price because her quality was not good enough to breed from.
Here's the link to the ad so you have a better idea of who I have in mind: https://www.leboncoin.fr/vi/1523764944.htm/
Well that's all, if you're still here then thank you and I'm sorry for such a long post. Its out of my system now lol. Please if you have any advice or tips please let me know, also tell me if those forum people are right? I don't feel inclined to listen to them but I don't want to make the wrong choice. |
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1. Even if you want a mare solely for breeding, you should try to buy one who has proved herself either in competition or as a dam and preferably both 2. Try to locate and view some of her offspring. This will give you a good idea of the temperament she passes on to her foals. The relevant breed or competition society should be able to help you identify any registered progeny 3. Do not buy a broodmare with a behavioural problem as she is likely to pass it on to her foal. Remember that the mare has the greatest influence on her foal‘s outlook on life 4. Breeding from unsound mares is the greatest mistake of all. With so many mares to choose from, why increase the risk by breeding a foal who could share it’s dam’s weakness? 5. One exception to the above rule would be a successful competition mare who has suffered a genuine accident after proving her soundness. Tough competition mares are the best possible breeding prospects
6. Unless you wish to show your mare, scars and other unsightly defects due to an accident or injury are not a problem and may help you negotiate a lower price
7. A mare that is capable of being ridden, or who has competed successfully, will always be a better buy. If something goes wrong and she doesnÂ’t breed then there will always be an alternative job for her
8. Never buy a broodmare without a pedigree. This is common sense not snobbery. A good looking mare without breeding papers may produce a foal which throws back to a small pony or cart horse, for her distant parentage
9. Although having a broodmare vetted may seem an expensive luxury it will help prevent nasty surprises in the future. Also a broodmare should be sound in wind, heart and eyes
10. With so many surplus horses on the market, think long and hard before embarking on a breeding project. Does the mare have that special something which is worth passing on to a new generation of horses?
There is other information the buyer may find helpful prior to purchase. This may include:
1) number of covers required to achieve the pregnancy;
2) last foaling date (if applicable) of the mare;
3) if previously foaled, is the seller aware of any difficulties with the delivery? 4) was the mare fetal sexed and, if so, what is the sex of the in utero fetus?
5) is vulvar conformation normal?
6) has the mare had a Caslicks performed? 7) does the mare have any physical issues that may affect her ability to deliver and raise a foal? 8) is the mare currently or within the last year has she been on any medication?
9) is the mare on normal turn-out with other mares?
10) vaccination history of the mare should be available; 11) if the mare has a weanling in the sale, the size and conformation of this individual should be noted. If the weanling is not in the sale, the prospective buyer may ask about it.
The answers to the above questions may be helpful for a number of reasons. For example, a large lapse of time between foaling and being bred back could indicate a difficult recovery from foaling. A large number of covers to achieve the pregnancy may indicate a problem history that should be investigated. Poor vulvar conformation may adversely affect the mare's ability to maintain the current pregnancy and could affect her future broodmare performance. Physical issues such as bad feet may affect the mare's ability to raise her foal, and they could affect the cost of maintaining her. Medication history obviously could be useful for the buyer in his/her management of the mare and could indicate other health concerns that the buyer should factor into their buying decision. Likewise, turnout history is important for the buyer to know so that if the mare is purchased, she can be cared for properly. |
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Wow thank you for putting the time into explaining it to me, I understand much better now.
I have yet to see her competition results, the owner said they were good but I would like official records.
At the moment she has produced one foal whom the owner was very pleased with and said she was a good mother, however I have asked for proof of the foal as I don't want to be duped.
About the pedigree I'll definitely be more rigorous in figuring out her's, she may not be registered simply because the owner never did it. I didn't consider an ancestor may come out in the foal rather than her or the sire.
As far as I can gather, she's been with the one owner since she was 18 months old and has been a leisure horse but worked regularly with a local school. She lives at the owner's home.
Thank you also for the other questions I should be asking, I never even thought of some of them lol. There is definitely a lot to consider and Ill make sure to ask the seller everything I need to.
I was going to vet her anyway, but thank you for the specific areas I need to look out for. Im curious though, why her eyes? Is it to make sure she has good visibility or is it something deeper? |
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you are very welcome
With the eyes its cause if there are deeper issues with the issues that may could be passt on to the future foals.
The saying " a broodmare should be sound in wind, heart and eyes" means mostly that the horse is totally fit and has no health issues. You dont want to buy a ill horse that will make you more issues then giving you pleasure.
Also if a horse is cheap to buy most of the time there is a issue somewhere about something. So yes always vet a horse.
Also i always suggest to people to try the horse they want to buy out for 2 weeks before deciding to buy, like have the horse at your stable try it out get the vet to come and then decide with all info you have if the horse is right for you.
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Las Rosa negras took every word and more out of what I was gonna say haha! Very well put and pretty much everything you need to know about a mare |
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Ah okay thank you! Yeah especially as she gets older I don't want a problem mare that will only get worse as she ages.
Sadly I'm sure having her on trial will be possible as she's four hours away from me, but I'll do the best I can.
Care lane said:
Las Rosa negras took every word and more out of what I was gonna say haha! Very well put and pretty much everything you need to know about a mare
Im glad! There was a lot I didn't consider that Las Rosa enlightened me on, if there was much more I'd be overwhelmed! :P
Thank you for your advice, when it's said in a positive way I am so much more inclined to listen, rather then just be annoyed that no one is listening to me lol. Thank you! I'll keep you posted on how it goes. The seller is travelling all this week and I won't get a response until saturday, so its fingernail biting time. :P |
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You are very welcome, yes there is alot to consider and look for when looking for a breeding mare. I should know i been breeding for nearly 20 years lol. I cross my fingers for you that she is alright. Its always hard to say if a horse is good unseen and to just go by a add so i wouldnt know unless i would see her and see her papers.
But i wish you luck and please do keep us updated :D
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lol thats certainly a lot of experience! That's longer then I've been alive wow o_o
I got a message from the seller and I was able to see her competition results. She's been out 20+ times this year and has had consistent top ten placings in jumping at 80/90, including several wins and 2nd place at a regional championship.
She did have one foal by a Lusitanian stallion in 2007, but the colt is registered as deceased as a 7 year old. I've asked about the cause of death.
Papers wise, she is registered as an ONC, or an origin unknown, but I've asked if the owner or someone else has any more information regarding her ancestry. I know that her dam is 100% selle francais, her sire is 'palomino', and that her grandfather (presumably on the sire's side) is Fresian. I've also asked what type of palomino the sire was, as that would determine a lot.
So far its looking good, as long as we can get her parentage made clear. Hopefully Ill get some more pictures soon to show you! I'm hopeful about this mare, so far I've seen nothing to be suspicious of in the owner, which is a nice change. :P Fingers crossed! |
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Las Rosas Negras said:
1. Even if you want a mare solely for breeding, you should try to buy one who has proved herself either in competition or as a dam and preferably both
2. Try to locate and view some of her offspring. This will give you a good idea of the temperament she passes on to her foals. The relevant breed or competition society should be able to help you identify any registered progeny
3. Do not buy a broodmare with a behavioural problem as she is likely to pass it on to her foal. Remember that the mare has the greatest influence on her foal‘s outlook on life
4. Breeding from unsound mares is the greatest mistake of all. With so many mares to choose from, why increase the risk by breeding a foal who could share it’s dam’s weakness?
5. One exception to the above rule would be a successful competition mare who has suffered a genuine accident after proving her soundness. Tough competition mares are the best possible breeding prospects
6. Unless you wish to show your mare, scars and other unsightly defects due to an accident or injury are not a problem and may help you negotiate a lower price
7. A mare that is capable of being ridden, or who has competed successfully, will always be a better buy. If something goes wrong and she doesn’t breed then there will always be an alternative job for her
8. Never buy a broodmare without a pedigree. This is common sense not snobbery. A good looking mare without breeding papers may produce a foal which throws back to a small pony or cart horse, for her distant parentage
9. Although having a broodmare vetted may seem an expensive luxury it will help prevent nasty surprises in the future. Also a broodmare should be sound in wind, heart and eyes
10. With so many surplus horses on the market, think long and hard before embarking on a breeding project. Does the mare have that special something which is worth passing on to a new generation of horses?
There is other information the buyer may find helpful prior to purchase. This may include:
1) number of covers required to achieve the pregnancy;
2) last foaling date (if applicable) of the mare;
3) if previously foaled, is the seller aware of any difficulties with the delivery? 4) was the mare fetal sexed and, if so, what is the sex of the in utero fetus?
5) is vulvar conformation normal?
6) has the mare had a Caslicks performed? 7) does the mare have any physical issues that may affect her ability to deliver and raise a foal? 8) is the mare currently or within the last year has she been on any medication?
9) is the mare on normal turn-out with other mares?
10) vaccination history of the mare should be available; 11) if the mare has a weanling in the sale, the size and conformation of this individual should be noted. If the weanling is not in the sale, the prospective buyer may ask about it.
The answers to the above questions may be helpful for a number of reasons. For example, a large lapse of time between foaling and being bred back could indicate a difficult recovery from foaling. A large number of covers to achieve the pregnancy may indicate a problem history that should be investigated. Poor vulvar conformation may adversely affect the mare's ability to maintain the current pregnancy and could affect her future broodmare performance. Physical issues such as bad feet may affect the mare's ability to raise her foal, and they could affect the cost of maintaining her. Medication history obviously could be useful for the buyer in his/her management of the mare and could indicate other health concerns that the buyer should factor into their buying decision. Likewise, turnout history is important for the buyer to know so that if the mare is purchased, she can be cared for properly.
Perfect. Hit the nail on the head and there's nothing more that could be added. |
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Garnet Stud said:
lol thats certainly a lot of experience! That's longer then I've been alive wow o_o
I got a message from the seller and I was able to see her competition results. She's been out 20+ times this year and has had consistent top ten placings in jumping at 80/90, including several wins and 2nd place at a regional championship.
She did have one foal by a Lusitanian stallion in 2007, but the colt is registered as deceased as a 7 year old. I've asked about the cause of death.
Papers wise, she is registered as an ONC, or an origin unknown, but I've asked if the owner or someone else has any more information regarding her ancestry. I know that her dam is 100% selle francais, her sire is 'palomino', and that her grandfather (presumably on the sire's side) is Fresian. I've also asked what type of palomino the sire was, as that would determine a lot.
So far its looking good, as long as we can get her parentage made clear. Hopefully Ill get some more pictures soon to show you! I'm hopeful about this mare, so far I've seen nothing to be suspicious of in the owner, which is a nice change. :P Fingers crossed!
You defently want more information on the death of that foal, preferable ask for the phonenumber, email or adress of the people who had that foal to get first hand information on that. For me as a breeder it is concerning that the foal died, ofcorse it depence on why it died.
The Mare does sound good for sure, the background well its a choice you need to make, iam personaly not a fan of crossbreeding or crossbreeds but that is my choice ofcorse so dont let that hinder you.
Only thing you should ask the owner on why she was breed when she was 5 years old and then never again. Its a little odd that she was breed and never breed again and then hearing the foal died at the age of 7.
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