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Seagrape Stables said:
Holly Hill Farm said:
There is such thing as cutting a horse too early. I have had issues with early gelding causing larger behavioral problems. I would give it more time and be firm, don't be hasty with castration. He's young, it could be a phase, bad phases with young horses are very very real.
9 months isnt early at all. Its more than appropriate as many geldings are done before they are weaned so mama can comfort. Color is no reason to keep a naughty stud colt in tact and overo and dun are common enough. Also round penning such a young horse is not the best route IMO but he does need manners. That aside has there been changes in his life in those two weeks....he may have ulcers, tooth discomfort etc. I'd have a full vetting done to see if there is a reason he is acting out. I'm a big proponent of stud colts having impecable manners when interacting with people
he was vetted a couple weeks ago due to limping vet did a full check including xrays looked at his whole body just to make sure they missed nothing on him and hes completely fine he had a bruise on his hoof that he was dramatizing. he's also on ulcerguard daily to prevent ulcers along with gut health supplements i do agree color is no reason to keep him a stallion we've said the only reason the color would be nice is if he was a good stallion he could give us a grullo overo roping mare but its not that important to us. he was weaned at 4 months and then immediately brought to our stable so i feel like that could have made things worse. But as i said things have been doing better with him this week so ill continue to update the forum on his manners as he's being trained |
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Ulcerguard unfortunately doesnt heal ulcers, he was weaned early, not uncommonly early, but early still. I'd treat him for ulcers - its not really something that comes up on a regular vet check as they wont be confirmed 100% without a scope. There's lots of gut products sold that dont actually treat the problem, unfortunately. Alfalfa hay if accessible, is also sooting on the tumz. |
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he's fed alfalfa every day:) his normal hay is 50% alfalfa but he also gets 8 quarts of soaked alfalfa cube with his grain and supplements
Cappuccino said:
Ulcerguard unfortunately doesnt heal ulcers, he was weaned early, not uncommonly early, but early still. I'd treat him for ulcers - its not really something that comes up on a regular vet check as they wont be confirmed 100% without a scope. There's lots of gut products sold that dont actually treat the problem, unfortunately. Alfalfa hay if accessible, is also sooting on the tumz.
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I'd take his balls out, without question. I've always been taught from a young age, if you need to make an excuse for a colt, take his balls out. Colour, bloodlines...they're nothing if what you've got is a dangerous temperament, an average type and something that isn't going to benefit the next generation...or a combination of any of the above. Every man and his dog has a colt or stallion, and there's a handful of good ones for every thousand shit ones. Behavioural issues are no joke, drop the balls out. I'd also have him scoped for ulcers. An x-ray won't show them. I have a gelding who does have ulcers and pre-management he was a moody, argumentative shit. He's fed 1kg of an ulcer safe pellet, 500g of dry copra (wetted), 1kg of Lucerne (alfalfa) chaff as well as the recommended dosage of his mineral mix and a turmeric supplement. Also note as well that lucerne/alfalfa is high protein and some horses cannot handle a high protein diet, especially without the necessary work to balance that out. Nutrition is far more important than people realise and many people do forget that the energy they're putting in needs to come out. I'd also definitely perhaps get slightly more assertive in your groundwork. The way it reads at this point, to me, it almost sounds like you have a degree of fear and in this sort of situation, fear is incredibly dangerous. I do not mean to say to get right up in the horses face and dominate him, I mean to move with confidence and purpose and be very clear and firm in your directive. Training horses is in many ways like raising a child, if you don't discipline them correctly, they will lose fundamental blocks in their foundation and things will fall apart later on in the horses training. I've dealt with a lot of youngsters over the years, from absolute angels to utter horrors. Feel free to message me with questions or even drop them here. I'm interested to see what you choose to do. |
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i just wanted to give the forum a bit of an update on how hes doing. Ive explained this in chat but feel as though i should give an update on here. Since posting my first post about him on here we've been working with him probably 4 times as often as we normally do. This has helped a TON with him and he has stopped essentially all of his behavioral problems. He does still have issues standing still when tied(just moves side to side sometimes) but keep in mind not that long ago he would have reared because of it. Also he's a baby moving side to side is not the end of the world when standing tied. He no longer rears. He no longer kicks. No longer strikes. Never bitten. We honestly think we just werent spending enough time with him and not working with him enough on anything including leading. He walks in hand, trots in hand, backs up, yields forequarters and hindquarters, picks up all 4 feet, stands tied(mild sidepassing ocassionally) Since just being more relaxed with him and not treating everything to do with him like its a boxing match he's done a complete 180 in temperment and behavior. We replaced his web halter with a 4 knot rope halter which he listened to right away and we genuinely think he's just never been asked to respect the halter. i am in no way new to training horses at all ive had stud colts before ive had foals, mustangs, mares, geldings you name it ive trained them but my genuine question in making this forum was to ask about gelding. We've never really had to geld one of our colts before so i was curious if it really even makes a difference. As for ulcers he has never showed any signs of having them, he always has something to munch on, on ulcerguard, on alfalfa and always has fresh water and a salt block 24/7 i genuinely dont think he has ulcers. This was 100% a lack of time and attention on my part. Im very used to roundpenning horses that have problems but he did not match well with that training method. Honestly shit happens but best you can do is learn and move on. I think of every horse i train as a learning experience. Every single horse is different and will require different methods. But as i said spending more quality time with him, switching his halter and doing long sessions leading around and working on the basics has 10000% helped him come out of the phase he was in. Even while lunging he doesnt run blind and try to bolt he walks off into his circle and goes the speed you ask for. He's really learned how to be calm and not be so hyped up all the time. Thank you guys for all your imput and help during the process we will probably still be gelding him as we've thought about it and just dont really need a breeding stallion. Thank you |
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Wings Of Glory said:
Crossroad Manor said:
Hey, Ultimatly You may not want too keep him a stud however if thats not an option I would try Round Penning. This gives you a small area to work him rather than in a large arena but also gives you enough space to safetly be around him. I would Try to get his feet moving and give him a job, Ive worked with colts like this and I often see this behavour when they get bored as they begin to test new waters. When he strikes out or is being pushy work him for 20 minutes in a round pen, when hes good turn him back out this will teach him that when hes being a dink he has to do work and get pushed around however when hes not he gets to be a horse. I would give him Another Month or two with constant work untill sent to the proffesionals and then see how he is after, often young horses can be taught bad habits with a simple flinch or reaction from you and its not always a genetic thing. Ive seen stud colts spoiled with no work then after a month of constant work they are a different horse.
we've tried roundpenning and lunging overall our indoor is small about the same size as an indoor roundpen but with corners. Getting his feet moving doesnt really help him alot because when you ask him to move his feet he will just bolt and hype himself up even more making him more hot and harder to handle. I have found that this week lunging slowly stopping desensitizing and then doing some trot and lope is what's been helping him the most. Ive been doing 30 minute sessions of just walking him around everywhere and it has helped a ton. The problem with roundpenning him like a typical horse is that he loves running and even when sweaty considers that to be the reward and the stopping to be the discipline. His papers are full of speed horses and runners which could explain why he's just obsessed with running. But when we tried that with him it made him like 1000 times worse and made him gain a habit of bolting into the arena and just starting to run in circles. He learns really fast which can also be a bad thing. So when he learned that bad habits would let him run he started doing them more. So now what we've been doing is when he tries to rear or strike he gets backed up alot and he's since pretty much stopped doing all of it. The worst habit he has is still there and has been there since birth from him. When we got him from his previous owners they never taught him personal space and only taught him to cuddle and bump into them to get cuddles so he pushes into you and tries to move you out of his way. Backing up has definitely helped with this and ryan rose's technique of "owning space" has worked wonders but it still needs more time of consistent training for it to get better. Overall he has been doing better after we took a step back and just started trying to be calmer and walk around letting him learn he doesnt always have to do bad things to get to have fun.
You could try "reversing" the round pen. Like, he does the negative behavior so you stop him. When he isn't doing the behavior or is being good, let him run. Every horse is different and all have their wierd training quirks. Different things work for different horses |
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Gelding 100% is the best option most of the time, studs are a dime a dozen. And yes, gelding does almost always change their outlook on life in a positive way. |
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Tranquility said:
Wings Of Glory said:
Crossroad Manor said:
Hey, Ultimatly You may not want too keep him a stud however if thats not an option I would try Round Penning. This gives you a small area to work him rather than in a large arena but also gives you enough space to safetly be around him. I would Try to get his feet moving and give him a job, Ive worked with colts like this and I often see this behavour when they get bored as they begin to test new waters. When he strikes out or is being pushy work him for 20 minutes in a round pen, when hes good turn him back out this will teach him that when hes being a dink he has to do work and get pushed around however when hes not he gets to be a horse. I would give him Another Month or two with constant work untill sent to the proffesionals and then see how he is after, often young horses can be taught bad habits with a simple flinch or reaction from you and its not always a genetic thing. Ive seen stud colts spoiled with no work then after a month of constant work they are a different horse.
we've tried roundpenning and lunging overall our indoor is small about the same size as an indoor roundpen but with corners. Getting his feet moving doesnt really help him alot because when you ask him to move his feet he will just bolt and hype himself up even more making him more hot and harder to handle. I have found that this week lunging slowly stopping desensitizing and then doing some trot and lope is what's been helping him the most. Ive been doing 30 minute sessions of just walking him around everywhere and it has helped a ton. The problem with roundpenning him like a typical horse is that he loves running and even when sweaty considers that to be the reward and the stopping to be the discipline. His papers are full of speed horses and runners which could explain why he's just obsessed with running. But when we tried that with him it made him like 1000 times worse and made him gain a habit of bolting into the arena and just starting to run in circles. He learns really fast which can also be a bad thing. So when he learned that bad habits would let him run he started doing them more. So now what we've been doing is when he tries to rear or strike he gets backed up alot and he's since pretty much stopped doing all of it. The worst habit he has is still there and has been there since birth from him. When we got him from his previous owners they never taught him personal space and only taught him to cuddle and bump into them to get cuddles so he pushes into you and tries to move you out of his way. Backing up has definitely helped with this and ryan rose's technique of "owning space" has worked wonders but it still needs more time of consistent training for it to get better. Overall he has been doing better after we took a step back and just started trying to be calmer and walk around letting him learn he doesnt always have to do bad things to get to have fun.
You could try "reversing" the round pen. Like, he does the negative behavior so you stop him. When he isn't doing the behavior or is being good, let him run. Every horse is different and all have their wierd training quirks. Different things work for different horses
yes this is what ended up working for him. when he was naughty he got stopped and had to back up and when good he got to lunge as normal |
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Yay!! Figured you were experienced enough in training you probably had done this already but figured I would just put that in there in case 😉😉. I hope he continues on the good boy path! Good luck with him Wings! <3<3 |
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Sunny
